the economy -- well, you knew jeffrey moore. >> i did very well. >> you knew the indicators that are used to define recession. they're not cherry-picked. that are very specific. they've been defining them for decades, almost a century. >> what are they? >> they are production, income, sales, broad sales and employment. that is it. and when they peak collectively, that is a telltale sign that you have turned the corner on the business cycle and are headed down. >> what about the -- production has come down. i agree with you. income has come down. sales have come down. employment, however, is still rising. >> well, first off, on production and income, you have not seen the simultaneous decline we have now in over half a century. you've never seen it outside of a recession. and you've always seen it inside of a recession and both of those peaked in july, broad sales thus far the peak is in july. that's the high point. we'll see what happens. unemployment is still rising. that's your best argument -- >> employment is still rising. >> jobs growth is still positive. now, that is not incons